We all know working in this space that the government is slow to innovate, but this innovative company works in around innovative technologies, and if not more important, innovative people.
Chrissy McGarry is the Chief Operating Officer of Second Front Systems, a software company that accelerates delivery of technology to U.S. warfighters. So today we’re going to talk about how their company grew, AI, and the business of hiring technical people. McGarry gives a rundown on their product, Game Warden, and how it gets tech to warfighters faster. She also tells us about the journey from start-up to 100 people at Second Front, how the business of hiring technical people these days is tough to say the least, industry issues she is seeing in the HR or recruitment functions, and artificial intelligence (AI).
Second Front and other companies signed on to this letter to bring about change in DoD software acquisition. We also unpack the content of the letter and why it’s critical to our industry.
Katie Keller:
Well, and so let’s touch on the journey from a startup to just about a hundred people, I believe, at Second Front and give us a rundown on the product’s Game Warden. I feel like our listeners are going to be really interested in this story.
Chrissy McGarry:
Yeah. So Second Front is actually almost a decade old, which is crazy to think about, but have been major shifts and changes throughout time. So originally started out more or less as a consultative firm in the space founded by three former Marines, and our former CEO, Peter Dixon, was the one who contacted me about five years ago now, which is wild to think about as they were bootstrapped on this idea for taking what they were doing from a consultative standpoint in this space to applying a software to it. So we had a legacy software called Atlas Fulcrum that helped to identify, assess commercial technologies for the government. And then it was about 18 months ago or so, after many conversations in the market space, trying to figure out, “Okay, what else is needed out there in the ecosystem?” And that’s where Game Warden came into play. So Game Warden is a DevSecOps platform that helps to accelerate and streamline the access of commercial tech for government users and our allies.
Katie Keller:
Well, and I know that we’re going to talk about really the importance of those partnerships within this space just to remain innovative as we are targeting these growing and sometimes new adversarial threats. And so we’ll talk about that a little bit later. But really, for our recruiter audience today, the business of hiring technical people these days is tough, to say the least. And the cleared space, it’s a shrinking talent pool. We, again, have those threats, and we’re trying to staff these programs and manage really talent. And so what sort of industry issues are you seeing in the human resources or recruitment functions of business?
Chrissy McGarry:
So some of the challenges that I was facing and has changed, but is also a challenge in and of itself, first and foremost is the talent pool today. Five years ago, when we started, it was really hard to secure top talent because they were working at those big tech firms. Now, with unfortunately the amount of layoffs that have occurred over the past nine months or so, talent pool is huge. So how do you sift through all of the individuals kind of coming through the door? And so there’s a ton of applications that you have to take your time working through, setting aside that time to review and assess them all accordingly.
And then the second challenge, I would say, is the ability to actually assess skills as a fully remote company, and doing everything virtually is a challenge in and of itself. And so yes, you can put a rigorous process in place and utilize the plethora of tools out there to help either streamline or accelerate those processes. But at the end of the day, it takes time, right? And you can put all these different funnels, I guess, in place to ensure that you’re securing that top talent, but you won’t really know until you’re engaging and operating with that individual on the working side of things.
Katie Keller:
Sure. I mean, from an HR perspective, I feel like you mentioned being a fully remote company. It’s really important in sort of retaining the talent that you actually do secure engaging those employees and making sure that they’re happy. And if they aren’t, how can you still utilize their skillset, maybe in a different capacity at the company? And so the recruitment and HR functions, I feel like really are the backbone to our industry. I mean, I’m a former recruiter, so I’m always going to say that.
Chrissy McGarry:
Totally. And I was just going to say, one of the things that we recently worked on and implemented was mapping out our employee journey for that very reason. How do we ensure that, at the very beginning, the very first touch point that we have with a potential candidate is a good, positive experience? And then, as we bring them in through the funnel into recruiting, and hiring, and onboarding, and integrating, and performing, and developing, and all of those stages that we’ve mapped out for ourselves, how do we ensure here at Second Front specifically that it is a challenging and fruitful experience?
And what’s been neat is we have had individuals being able to use Second Front as that steppingstone for the next pathway in their careers ’cause now we’ve been around long enough. And that, to me, is a good signal for individuals having a good experience and being able to move onward and upward throughout their careers. And then for others who haven’t maybe entered into this space before or haven’t been a part of a startup, et cetera, for them to come join the party and be a part of this scrappy, agile workforce.
Katie Keller:
Absolutely. And I know from a small business perspective, some folks feel like they don’t have the time to invest in these things, and especially for recruiters like, “No, I just need to hit the ground running and just think about the short recruiting game.” But really, it’s so important to put all those processes in place and make time for it.
Chrissy McGarry:
Oh, sure. Because if you don’t do it on the front end, you’re going to have to find more time on the back end.
Katie Keller:
Yeah. And I mean, I think employees that do have that positive experience, you have the chance that if they do end up leaving you, they could potentially be a boomerang employee because they think about that positive experience.
Chrissy McGarry:
1000%, which is why through our journey mapping and everything at the point of separation, right? Involuntary or voluntary, whatever might occur. It’s just an indicator that the organization has been evolving. And again, we want them to all have that fruitful and challenging experience, especially in defense tech. It’s a smaller ecosystem than you would think, right? And whether or not they boomerang back to take on another role where you’re at, the likelihood of you crossing paths, whether it’s through a partnership, a customer, or any other type of engagement, is high. So how do you make sure that you maintain that positive experience and interaction because they might be a referral or be helpful to the networking and assist in bringing new talent to the team, or be of assistance in any type of growth or development opportunities that might be out there? So you just never know where someone’s going to land.
So the reason why we took the time and much to what you were saying at the front end of this question is if you don’t take the time on the front end, you might pay for it later on. But if you do take the time on the front end, you can ensure that you have that feedback loop and that a positive experience all the way through and beyond.
Katie Keller:
Absolutely. So mapping the candidate and the employee journey is so important. So let’s move on to talk a little bit about artificial intelligence AI. Obviously, it’s in the news, both in the government contracting space and then outside in the commercial or private sector. And so, as a software company, your business likely touches the capabilities of AI and potentially does for your people or recruitment teams. And so, what are your thoughts on integrating some of these things to make the business function more efficiently? And so I know the issue is AI’s going to replace jobs. Do you think that’s in fact true, or possibly create more?
Chrissy McGarry:
I always like to take the optimistic and positive side because, if you look at history and when new technology has come out, that’s always been a worry. It’s going to replace jobs. But in fact, it’s actually proven the opposite, right? It has created more.
Now, where I think the opportunity lies specifically with AI is personally, I don’t think it’ll replace the human capability, but it does, in fact, to what you said, help to accelerate or help be more efficient in what you’re doing. So specifically for jobs and stuff, I can give some examples. Utilizing it to help with job descriptions, utilizing for… We use ChatGPT for journey mapping, right? Not because we want it to spout out exactly what we think we’re going to use, but it kind of helps to generate a baseline based on some bullet points and ideas that we can then work off of and accelerate how we’re thinking through these processes and mapping it out.
So to the point we’re just speaking about in regards to the recruiting and the hiring and mapping out a process, it’s utilizing those functionalities that can actually help accelerate the creation of these processes that are thorough and rigorous to ensure that you are bringing the right individuals through the pipeline and onto your companies.
Katie Keller:
For sure. I mean, I even know today… I mean, I work more in content. I moved on from recruiting. But even just sitting down, people experience writer’s block. I mean, using those tools, like you said, as more of a jumping off point until it sparks other ideas is there’s no shame in it. It’s not lazy. It’s not… It take advantage of the tools that you have at your disposal.
Chrissy McGarry:
Totally. I mean, it’s enablement, right? It’s any tech tool you utilize to help accelerate you doing your job. That’s how I look at it, right? So it doesn’t have to be… It could be any tool like Salesforce. It doesn’t help you sell better. It helps you sell faster if you’re putting in the right data and you’re able to analyze and assess it. So that’s kind of how I look at AI.
Katie Keller:
Sure. And so AI… I mentioned in my intro that everybody knows that the government is sometimes slow to innovate when it comes to products and surfaces that are coming out in the commercial sector. The government might not take those on until a couple of years later. And then, at that point, the threats changed. The landscape has changed. And so Second Front and a few other companies signed on to a letter to bring about change and DOD software acquisition, which I think is really important. And again, we’ll talk about these partnerships between the private sector and defense, but let’s unpack that letter and why it’s so critical to our industry.
Chrissy McGarry:
Well, I know for us, 50% of our company comes with either veteran or having worked in the government background. So half of our company has had very close proximity to the challenges of not having the best technology in hands in order to get their job done. And it could be something lower impact, so to speak, as someone just being able to log into their computer when getting on base to someone not being able to push out the updated software to a machine that they may be running and operating while being boots on the ground. And that’s a range, right? But that’s really frustrating. As a civilian, I call myself the token civilian. That’s really frustrating from my point of view to realize and hear these stories of how often and how real that challenge and problem set is for individuals who are running and operating in national security missions overall, which is part of the reason why we wanted to partake and join in on this letter.
And that’s what we do now with Game Warden is helping to support the acceleration and the adoption of those technologies for the government. And what better time to be in this industry? Unfortunately, we all know that the geopolitical landscape is tension-filled. We also see the amount of allocations that are being put forth through the defense budget. And there’s also been more focus on the innovation hubs that have been stood up by the government as well. So the support and the desire to execute on this capability is all there. So yeah, I mean, we are obviously feeling called too and working towards helping solve what is a challenge and a complex problem.
Katie Keller:
Well, yeah. Well said. I mean, we just need the buy-in to execute some of these things from the different stakeholders that are part of these DOD processes. And just for listeners to share some of the highlights from the letter, these companies called to create a pathway for buying readily available SaaS offerings, standardizing the application of existing acquisition pathways across the military, and reauthorize the Small Business Innovation Research, or SBIR. Yeah, I’ve been a part of a couple of companies that have engaged in that. And so I will link to that letter. But kind of moving on. So I like to touch on being a woman in this space, especially in someone of your position. And I’ve seen you a part of a couple of podcasts and content sort of surrounding AI and sort of the defense tech space. So let’s talk a little bit about Second Front’s content that they’re putting out.
Chrissy McGarry:
Yeah. So we launched, earlier this year, a podcast called All Quiet on the Second Front. And my favorite tagline that our now CEO Tyler Sweatt has at the opening is where boring conversations about defense tech come to die. And the whole premise of that is it doesn’t need to be that hard to understand or to follow. The goal is always how can these problems and complexities be somewhat consumable by all the constituents and the individuals who are coming to help solve for these problems, right? So it’s been really neat.
We just wrapped up our first season. We have about 20 episodes. And each one we bring a unique individual to the table to speak to a particular topic. It could be about the venture capital space. It could be about partnerships and alliances. And Episode 10 is the one where we get to have Tyler sit down with Ben Van Roo, the CEO and co-founder of Yurts Technologies, episode 10, where they spoke about AI, software development, and the challenges, and the landscape.
Katie Keller:
That’s awesome. And kind of similar to us with the security clearance process and security clearance jobs. We try to make it a little more sexy than what some of the policy seems like. Like, “Okay-”
Chrissy McGarry:
Yeah. Right? Make it fun.
Katie Keller:
… why should the everyday civilian, like you said, care about this stuff? And so I think it’s really important, especially as a company working in defense tech. Obviously, you’re working on more of solving those grownup problems, but you’re also putting together some fun content that sort of builds awareness around some of these issues.
Chrissy McGarry:
Yeah. It builds awareness, and it allows for people to actually engage in what I find to be super fruitful conversations and broaden maybe their exposure or their aperture of how they used to think about things just because they’ve been in their lane for so long, so to speak. So yeah, I think it’s really cool that we’ve more or less created the space and the opportunity to broaden the conversations and think through some of other ways that we might want to address things or bring to fruition or reality of all the similarities that actually do exist.
Katie Keller:
Well, so I teased that we would talk about partnerships. So you also put on a yearly event called Offset Symposium, which kind of brings partners together. So tell us about the types of organizations that you partner with and really, just why it’s so incredibly important to solving national security problems.
Chrissy McGarry:
So we are partnered with everyone and anyone in the ecosystem. And we do so because we really do want to be that trusted third party bringing individuals to the table, whether it’s the government, traditional defense, tech space, the innovation hubs we spoke to, the venture capital community, the academia we bring to the table, right? And so each year at Offset Symposium, we try to create a space for all of those individuals to come and engage in conversations. And we have very specific panels where we mix them all together, and we have other ones where we highlight experts in that particular realm. It’s been really neat. And then on top of that, not only all those different individuals within the ecosystem, but to any of those larger organizations in the space like AWS, Google Snowflake, Caresoft, right? How do they come into play to help with the enablement and the acceleration of everything that everyone is trying to do because they are obviously so well-known and successful in their own right?
Katie Keller:
Sure. Well, and like I said, fostering these partnerships is really important. As problems change as the solutions continue to change, this is a really dynamic environment that we work in. And so we all have to kind of work together to make sure that our national security is protected.
And so, Chrissy, thank you so much for joining me for the podcast today. I really enjoyed the conversation and learning about Second Front. And so for listeners, if you want to learn more about defense tech, getting a career in it, or how to hire in it, you can visit news.clearancejobs.com.
